I seem to have revisited the subject again. Yes.
I would have one already except for a comment by Tam. I trust her judgement, especially because of her gun store experience. If she noticed a lot of folks buy DA 1911 types, then sending them back for service, or buying them and getting them sold back to her a year later because it wasn't all that for the owner...
But here, these are Tam's words:
"If you ever listen to one piece of advice from me, let it be this one:
It you want a DA pistol, buy an actual DA pistol, not some half-assed attempt to retrofit DA or DA-style lockwork into a 1911 frame.
Seriously, there's not a one of those things worth the acetylene it would take to torch-cut the receivers to BATF specs."
Yikes, I need to keep finding this post and rereading it before I start fondling my credit card with stars in my eyes. A strong opinion on the subject from someone I trust and someone not trying to sell me a gun.
But what .45 pistol (preferably that takes 1911 mags and is thus thin in the grip) is DA only out there? A little more to the DA trigger pull than your normal striker fired polymers. My guess is: None.
There is very little for me to go on to make my own judgement, flying in the face of Tam's advice. I have no idea what the guts of the trigger on these DA pistols use and whether they are any good.
"So, why the harping on the subject, T-Bolt, in the light of such a hearty anti-endorsement?" I am not like other shooters. Most people shoot SA pistols better than they shoot DA. Not me, not yet. So it's a nearly unique subject applying to me. Evidence it is unique is the lack of known decent products to fill the niche, so the niche is probably rare. There might be someone else out there with the same issue as me. I doubt they read this blog, but... I can hope maybe to help myself and maybe some other.
I'm probably just 'broken'.
[Hey, wait! New York cops have striker fired guns with a heavy trigger pull. Not because they are better shots but because they are poorly trained and supposedly used to DA revolvers and too many city cops were shooting themselves in the ass on the draw. Hmm...]
[Original reasoning in my search for DA .45? I wanted a gun with a bit more oomph for IWB carry, but also had a similar trigger profile/experience as the snubbie for the times I couldn't have a holstered pistol but could have a pocket option. Sure, they load differently, but if I could get a semi and a revolver to feel the same in the trigger every shot, I thought that might be useful, for consistency. Then I'd stick to those two. Get spares of both in case they break. Sell off or safequeen the others.]
18 comments:
You are asking the wrong question. I'd bet money if you found a perfect DA 1911 you'd probably still suck.
Do you have a problem carrying cocked and locked?
IMO, If you have a quality 1911 and you suck SA you just need better training and practice. Probably flinch issues.
You seem fixated on the wrong thing.
I don't know who Tam is but she might agree if you asked her.
Did you ever get a feel for how well regarded that Colt New Agent is? My wife Danielle wants one to carry after falling in love with it at the NRA Con in Pittsburgh, and I haven't been able to work out whether it has a good reputation.
Now for some Constructive Criticism: in response to you question, I've just done a quick perusal of what's out there.
A) Forget taking 1911 mags. You're back to the Colt Double Action Products, and you know how Tam feels.
B) There's still a few DA/SA products out there (i.e. Sig, Ruger, H+K), but they tend to be Full Size. Then you have the second Shot being Single Action, and you're back to Square One.
C) Since you and I don't like those little levers on our triggers, the only major manufacturer that I could easily find that has single stack DAO in .45ACP is Kahr. 4 different sizes, but it is Poly Framed.
D) Having said that, the Kahr Family has a Trigger Pull that I like, similar to a Revolver (IMHO).
E) Hitting the Used Gun Market, I THINK Smith made up a VERY FEW of their 3rd. Gen. .45ACP guns in DAO, but they're rarer than an Honest Politician.
F) Even if you found a .45 ACP Wheelie, then you face the added necessity of the Full Moon Clip.
You're Right. It's such a Niche Market, you would probably find Braces for Hen's Teeth First.
As for the New Agent, if I heard it right, I THINK Newbius's Wife went with the New Agent, but you'd better double check with him.
However, if you want to get some training, I just so happen to have the old Colt .22 Conversion Slide that mounts on top of Full Size 1911's. Supposedly, it gives the recoil of a .45 ACP, but shoots .22LR. And it should be Maryland Legal, since it's just the Top End.
Hope this helps.
Colt Agent is DA only but has a 12 pound trigger.
Shoot one before you buy one.
Anon1: I only have a slight, but surmountable issue with cocked and locked; I don't have flinch issues with SA revolvers, apparently, but do with 1911 SAs; Tam probably does agree with the 'more training' sentiment, as do I.
Elmo: the New Agent is still kinda new to get a lot of review data points on it. Wish I had fondled it at Pittsburg, my ownself.
Anon2: 12 pound DA doesn't bother me, apparently, but yes, I will want to shoot more than a mag through one even if I took leave of my senses and ignored Tam's advice.
Les: Your points jibe with mine. I have a conversion kit to shoot .22 on a 1911. My results look like I was shooting SA out of a revolver and don't approximate my performance with .45 1911, or .357 SA revolver.
Ignore Tam's advice at your peril.
As to training "It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian".
Train, train and train some more...
If you want a DA .45 ACP, Smith makes a DANDY one; it's called the 625. I have my two. Moon clips are both cool and inexpensive.
I agree with Boat Guy that the S&W 625 is a sweet revolver. However, I only have one. Second however, they don't make it now, rather they sell a tarted up version as a Miculek special. I'd be happy to meet you at On Target sometime and let you shoot it to your heart's content. It's got a very smooth trigger pull and I find it just as accurate as my Kimber Classic Stainless Target (first gen.).
I have a Colt Double Eagle that I shoot exceedingly well. It also weighs a ton and was purchased for me by my dad for my 21st birthday. I'd mentioned the thing to him at the gun store because I thought that was what HE was looking for ...
... dammit wished I'd appreciated the difference between Gold Cup and Double Eagle when I was 21.
Sig P220 Carry in DAK?
Just a thought.
I have the p229 DAK. It's a biggun at .40. Too biggun.
You know if the grip slimmed down and took a single stack mag it would be perfect, but I've said that over and over.
Chris,
One of my 625's IS a Miculek. VERY nice carry piece. The other is an early 625 with the 5" full underlug barrel. Shot both at a Thunder Ranch course this summer. I highly recommend wearing gloves if you're gonna be shooting hundreds of rounds DA through either of them - unless of course you ARE Jerry Miculek...
Sig P250 is another to look at. Still a good sized gun, but smaller than a 220.
I carry a standard 1911 cocked and locked. I'm thinking my next carry gun will be a Sig 200 DA/SA. I just like the slim grip of a single stack.
Boat Guy,
I have one of those early ones. While I have never trained with it (I used a 1911 when I went to Front Sight), I have shot 150-200 rounds more than once at my local range in the course of about an hour. No hand pain. Could be the Hogue grip, could be my fat hands. It surely isn't a high pain tolerance. And I'm MOST definitely nothing like Miculek.
para .45 lda
I would think if anyone would it's be Beretta, and they're base here in MD,maybe give them a call?
The SIG P220 Carry DAK is a smaller (shorter barrel, a-round mag), single stack double action only in .45 ACP.
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