Saturday, March 5, 2011

Deployment

Would you deploy your CCW weapon if you were in public and some lone male started shouting Allahu Akbar and not in a joking manner?  Is that situational enough to justify going from Condition Yellow to Orange? To red?  (Well, definitely Orange)

This is assuming a new trend doesn't start where folks start doing that constantly among the Westerners to desensitze them.

19 comments:

ZerCool said...

No different than a bible-thumper screaming about "God hates fags" at a soldier's funeral...

JB Miller said...

I would react. Cover first and if he opened fire like in the Frankfurt airport, I would return fire.

Oh, wait. Airports are gun-free zones for our safety.

Never mind...

New Jovian Thunderbolt said...

The Westboro assholes don't kill people, ZerCool.

Paladin said...

I'd deploy.

If I saw a gun or suicide vest I'd take it further. Someone shouts that and then has a weapon ready to go - they reap what they sow.

Old NFO said...

I agree with Paladin, but I'd go to cover first...

mycrofth4 said...

Agree with NJT.
If people had been shouting "God hates fags" then cutting loose with an AK47 or blowing themselves up in crowded pizza parlors, I bet the Supreme Court decision would have gone the other way.
After all, that's gotta be worse than shouting "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater.

Andy said...

If by deploy you mean make it publicly visible such as to unholster it, then be prepared to spend some time in the pokey for brandishing a deadly weapon. Shouting "Allahu Akbar" is not a threat, and even it it was you'd be escalating the confrontation anyway.

If you feel threatened, just get the hell out of there. Unless you see him with knife, gun, bomb, or some other deadly weapon, getting your gun out is the wrong move legally.

Paladin said...

Andy - There are many ways to deploy, so I guess I should have been more specific in my response.

By "deploy" in this instance I mean the gun is coming out of the holster. Doesn't mean I'm gonna wave it around, point it at anyone, or scream "GET DOWN" like a maniac. It would come out as covertly as possible and I very much doubt that anyone will give little old me a second thought with some guy yelling about Allah. Given recent events if a person starts yelling that in a crowded public place my gun is out of the holster while I get me and mine out of range as quickly as possible.

Not talking about, or recommending, over-reacting. Just don't want for those words to be the last I hear. Too many people in my State have experienced that already. I can't count on someone saying ready, set, go.... before shit hits fan.

Andy said...

Paladin,

I admit to being dense and not very plugged in, but I'm unaware of the events you are talking about, and I doubt you'd have much of a defense in a court of law.

And brandishing doesn't mean you have to point a gun at somebody. If you were to untuck your holster without unholstering your gun as a response in the scenario above, that could be considered brandishing. If you were open carrying and pointed at your gun in order to get the guy to shut up, that would likely be considered brandishing. In the scenario painted above, the young male would have to either present a deadly weapon or give a very good reason that he has one and is about to use it. Screaming "Alluha Akbar" isn't enough.

Bubblehead Les. said...

1) I'd duck and look for the nearest cover. 2) Hand would be placed on the grip, ready to be drawn (but since I prefer pocket and shoulder holster carry, most of the non-carriers shouldn't see anything). 3) Re-assess the situation, looking to see if the Tango has backup. 4) Draw and fire if necessary. YMMV, of course.

Tam said...

I can't find this "brandishing" thing anywhere in the Indiana Criminal Code. Can someone help?

Andy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Andy said...

Sorry Tam. I didn't mean to be confusing. I was assuming Virginia code, and you are right that it is a state by state thing. I'm sure in Indiana it is probably legal to get all up in someone's grill with your gat. :)

Ian Argent said...

I'd, well, I'd do what Bubblehead Les said, except I'd be looking for the egress and only cover in place if I didn't think I could make it.

As a side note - Andy, how would VA Code and cops' interpretation thereof handle putting the hand on the grip of a weapon secured in a non-flapped holster? (Assume, for the moment, that it isn't the idiots in Norfolk who keep buying college funds for carriers).

Andy said...

Ian, it all depends if your actions can be construed that you are conveying a threat to use a deadly weapon. If you put your hand on your gun but you are attempting to conceal your actions, that isn't brandishing as far as I know.

I've heard of, though don't have any concrete citation, brandishing charges for untucking in a restaurant so that the carrier could drink (illegal to drink while concealed, legal for open carry). And there is a rather infamous case going on right now where a guy who was open carrying pointed his finger at a security guard and is now up on brandishing charges. Lets hope that one gets thrown out.

Ian Argent said...

@Andy: Yeesh.

Considering that I carry my bluetooth headset on my strong-side belt (used to be my phone until I moved it to the other side) at 2:30 or so, I could be nailed for brandishing if I moved my coat to get at those while I was carrying at 4:00? That's nuts.

Hell, I typically carry a pocketknife and a flashlight in my strong-side pocket (clipped to the inside).

Boat Guy said...

I rather doubt those "brandishing" charges would stick in VA; given that significant numbers of us regularly uncovered before the Restautant Ban was excised.
The best source for information on carrying and other civil liberties in VA is VCDL.
"Brandishing" has usually been considered to be associated with threatening behavior, not simple carrying or even gripping a firearm

Ritchie said...

At The Place of Employment there is a young redneck in the shipping dept who found it amusing to call out "Allahu Akbar" until I told him that this state has somewhere around 30K CCW holders. Haven't heard much since.
Mycrofth4: The original quote has to do with *falsely* yelling "fire" in crowded theater. I notice that critical word is being routinely forgotten.

Ian Argent said...

Cultural connotation is everything. "Allahu Akbar" is scary when yelled out by an angry young man. When it's "God is great, beer is good, people are crazy," no-one objects, even though the first two words are translated the same...

I'd be pretty wary of that angry young man myself. As I said, context matters; it's not what you say, it's how you say it. When I joke that I'm going to break the fingers of the next person I catch making a rookie mistake, I'm joking. When Joey "No-Joke" says the same to a guy behind on his payments, it's an imminent threat.