Wednesday, November 2, 2011

I Feel Like I've Felt This Before

"It's like a million Orange Gunsite trainees cried out... and then went silent"

Is it just me, or does it seem that a lot of people are putting their 1911 in the safe and taking up a 9mm S&W M&P.

SaysUncle likes his 9, though I'm not sure if it's an M&P.  Caleb likes his M&P.  Even TAM might have gone over semi-permanent-like!  I thought Tam had 1911 embedded in her DNA.  (But I also think Tam goes with what works and doesn't let old habits or sentimentality stand in the way of effective personal defense.  I also don't think Tam is about to spit on 1911s and go full fangrrrl for other things.  I look forward to a post of hers that goes into this, and respect her enough to take a hard hard look at her reasoning.  She has forgotten more stuff about the subject than I will ever know, and hangs out with people that are the same to her.)  It all this might have something to do with this guy.

It's like a bunch of Star Wars fans saw what Lucas made of the best scifi franchise EVER with his horrid prequels and then... went out and bought a t-shirt that reads "Joss Whedon Is My Master Now."

Jeff Cooper is dead.  The wheel turns.  The pendulum swings.  And high capacity 9mm pistols are in vogue again. At least among folks I am paying attention to.

What prompted this?  Kick ass high quality trainers that like the M&P 9?  Ammo cost?  The inability to get a decent 1911 in the half a kilobuck range?  Flash Mob robberies where a few more than 7 rounds is handy?

Beats me.  If it's a bandwagon, I am not hopping on.  And if it's not a bandwagon I am not hopping on, either.  What I got is fine.  I just want to get better with what I got.  If arguments that brought M&P 9mm to the fore front can sway me, I'll go with my P229, and figure out a way to CCW it.  If they aren't and I can improve myself, I will lean to the 1911 and get comfortable on carrying IT in condition 1.

I should just stick with revolvers exclusively... I still shoot them best and carry one the most.  I wonder if THAT bandwagon is ever coming back.


JD Rush said...

It's the new meme- Look at my M&P9 FS!

No, seriously. Mine pairs nicely with my daily carry M&P40c. And fits the same holster. And conceals almost as well.

ZerCool said...

I bought the M&P9 this summer to fill a specific desire/hole in my gun safe: a polymer-framed full-size semi-auto. I don't care for Glocks, and when handling the M&P and XD side-by-side, the M&P pointed a hair more naturally.

I'd like to add a .40 and a .45 to the lineup as well, just on general principle.

But you'll never see me giving up my 1911s. ;-)

Tam said...

Glock, M&P, HK P30, a good used P-228, whatever. I was just looking for a lightweight nine that held a bunch of bullets.

The fact that I needed to keep the tariff under four bills pretty much ix-nayed the SIG and HundK. In retrospect, I kinda wish I'd bought the G-lock, despite it having those Big Dots on it, because I'd forgotten that S&W wants blood money for magazines. I'd have saved enough money on four spare mags to pay for a set of Warren Tacticals or Trijicons.

Kevin Baker said...

I have one of those Joss Whedon shirts. Does that mean I have to go buy an M&P?

Anonymous said...

I bought a Ruger SR40 a while back after shooting the other striker fired pistols (Glock, M&P, XD) and the Ruger (also available SR9) is the best of the bunch, plus you can disable the stupid magazine disconnect in about 5 min.

and there's 15 round of .40 goodness (I wish there was a 10mm vers)

Bubblehead Les. said...

Well, if you can hit best with a Wheelie, then carry the Wheelie. If, like Tam says, "just looking for a lightweight 9 that carries a lot of bullets" is jumping on the Bandwagon, then a lot of people seem to be playing that tune.

But one should use the Tools that one is most comfortable with, provided it can get the job done.

Even Breda has gone Plastic and Switched to the Ruger LCP.

Besides, if NIS/NCIS/whatever they're called nowadays can carry Sigs as their Primary Weapon, then you should have No Problem CC'ing one, if you want to. It's not like there's a lack of Good Holsters and Gear for that Pistol Family out there. Your Sig, couple of spare Mags, the J-Frame as an Emergency Back Up, you'd be fine if there ever was a Level 4 Outbreak. Just don't use a Shotgun for Zombies.

Tam said...


Remember: It's just a gun, not a tattoo or a lifestyle choice. ;)

New Jovian Thunderbolt said...

But I absorb the entirety of my self-confidence esteem as an extension of my firearm choice! I gotta choose right or I'd be a bad person.

poliwog said...

Wanting to learn I read and read. It gets to be too much sometimes. Yet I continue reading.
Wanting to learn I practice and ... well, not enough. It's expensive and takes time. Yet I continue to practice.
Being new to carrying and shooting I face a steep learning curve. I am very thankful to yourself and many others for sharing and teaching.
That said, I am trying to concentrate and learn using what I have - a Commander. I find myself tempted but also scared to try even a custom 1911, let alone a Glock, or SW. I might like it, then where would I be?

Knitebane said...

Oh fer cryin' out loud....

I picked up an STI Spartan in 9mm from Dawson Precision and used it at my recent TigerSwan class. It ran me about $600 and came with adjustable rear sights and a fiber optic front sight. I get 10 round mags from Wilson Combat for about $30 each. I had no issues keeping up with "only" 10 rounders. And it runs just fine.

If $600 is too much both Rock Island and ATI make a 1911 under $400. They run just fine too.

I went with the 9mm for the class because it's cheap. I can train and plink with a 1911 in 9mm and then carry in .45ACP without having to remember another manual-of-arms. The Spartan is functionally identical to my Springfield which is functionally identical to my Rock Island Officer's Model which if functionally identical to my wife's Rock Island Tactical.

You don't have to spend a grand to get a 1911 that runs. That might have once been true (and granted there are still bad 1911s out there...Taurus I'm looking at you) but for the price of a plastic gun I got a 1911 from a well-known and trusted maker. I can get grips and parts and holsters and sights and accessories to warm a mall ninja's heart.

So I'm not understanding the disdain and misinformation that seems to be the norm when CCWing a 1911 comes up.

Is it just because all the cool kids are buying Tactical Tupperware? I really don't get it.

But then I don't own a Sham-Wow or a Snuggie either.

Guffaw in AZ said...

I'm libertarian in most of my thinking. Translation, do as you wish-and prepare for consequences.
I, like you am old-school.
I believe in JMB's machine and God's caliber.
But, in AZ, I mostly carry a .38 snub, due to hot weather.
Hypocrite? I suppose. But, it's my choice.
The favorite gun I no longer have is my Browning High Power. Belgian, in 9mm.
Having said all that, remember Jim Cirillo,
"Stopping power BEGINS at 12 gauge."

Tam said...

Some people sure do get wrapped 'round the axle about pistols.

Unknown said...

Good post. I just ditched my beloved 1911 in favor of the Glock17 for some of the reasons you noted -- mainly for the potential on big crowd control. I have waaaay too many kids to be able to run from trouble, so I wanted a gun with lots of rounds.

I do like the feel of the Ma & Pa lineup more than Glock, but there's the other issue of holsters, mags, tested ammo, and other thingies that come with a carry gun to move away from the G17.

BoatGuy said...

Dunno how the Ruger could be the "best of the bunch" since it apparently has a "magazine safety" which needs to be "disabled" (in however many minutes).
Though they are single-stacks the SIG 225/P6 German cop turn-ins were a pretty good deal for $200-ish, a couple of years back though there was a magazine problem for a time.

Nancy R. said...

"I just want to get better with what I got."


Keads said...

I have one, and I agree with Tam on its just a "..nearly disposable 9mm bullet hose.." I took a Colt 1911 to USTC's pistol class and it worked fine but the magazine changes were laborious.

I took a M&P to ToddG's class later and I must say it allowed me to pay attention to the instructor instead of loading mags. It worked fine too.

I really don't care too much on what is is as long as its reliable and I can use it well.

Sport Pilot said...

Tam just summed this up and no one noticed with her comment about folks getting all wrapped around the axle. Smart lady indeed, a pistol is a tool; you purchase tools and use them until you replace them. I carry and shoot three different polymer pistols; two are issued the BUG mine. I might not consider them to be the service revolver or pistol I began with, but things change. Ergonomics, serviceability and accuracy are nice but buying a pistol within a set budget means something too.

KR said...

Why I dumped my 5" steel frame 1911 in .45 ACP for a 9mm XD and now an M&P 9?

1) I quit believing the .45 ACP "myth" after all the trainers I trust and the available data all say 9, .40, and .45 all work the same if you hit vital organs, and all fail if you don't.

2) Got tired of carrying a big heavy 1911.

3) Got tired of fighting with 1911 grip safety and thumb safety in one handed gun manipulation drills. No matter what I did, the thumb safety was always in the way on one drill or another. (Dumped the XD after fighting its grip safety for a week at the Rogers school, where one handed work is 50% of the program. XD slide won't run unless you press grip safety in.)

4) Discovered that a double stack polymer 9 is less trouble to carry than a single stack 1911.

5) XD w/ Springer Precision trigger and M&P w/ Apex trigger have trigger quality equal to tuned 1911. I shoot IPSC Master with 1911/2011, need one more classifier submitted to hit IPSC Master in Production with M&P.

My experience has been that the harder you push your gear and the more realistic your training, the shorter the list of gear that can "cut it" gets. The M&P does everything the Glock does but it's a little smoother and nicer with a better trigger (with Apex parts).

Clint said...

If I may hi-jack this section...

Tam where do you buy Magazines at?

At Midway, glock mags go for $25 regular (there's a sale now so they are $22).
M&P mags are regularly $34, on sale $30.

That's a $9 diff each or $36 for four.

Warren Tactical sights cost similar to Trijicons and at Midway, Trijicons cost $88 for Austrian guns and $123 for the American ones.

New Jovian Thunderbolt said...

Yes, you CAN buy a $500 Phillipine 1911. But I swap out MIM parts on any 1911 I get and do other customizations and like to use my .22 conversion kit. Those cheaper 1911s don't fit the add-on well I've discovered, so I eschew them. I'm sure they are fine, otherwise, but just not for me.

New Jovian Thunderbolt said...

"4) Discovered that a double stack polymer 9 is less trouble to carry than a single stack 1911."

This intrigues me and I'd like to discover that for myself.

Clint said...

It's not common but it works for some people.

In short, the shorter the barrel the more comfortable a gun is to carry concealed, the shorter the grip the easier it is to carry concealed.

Four inch vs five inch barrel, and many poly guns have shorter, but thicker, grips. The thicker part is often a deal killer for most people but some lucky guys don't have that problem.

Of course, a good holster makes all the difference...

JD Rush said...

I pay $25 each plus shipping for mags for the M&P- 9 or 40, stubby or FS. 44mag dot com, found it looking for Ceiner/Blackdog AR15 22 conversion mags. About slow as heck, though. Kinda like Midways postal option. I'm 1 hour from Brownells, though :)Took a tour as a kid decades ago. Talk about a crackhead in Columbia.....
Sorry about continuing the threadjack.

counsel said...

M&P? Anyone pick up the FNX-9? I bought one-love that gun ;p

I like shooting it-more than 8 tomes between having to drop and replace my magazine ;)