Monday, June 29, 2020

More on Jeff, and Pistols

Obviously, he was biased on 1911s.  To knock the 1911 off it's perch as the best pistol platform in existence, the replacement would have to much superior to crack through his bias.  I believe he'd come around it one had, but that's an exceedingly high bar to clear, that never was cleared.

Putting aside the .45ACP part of the argument.

After caliber, he stressed the 'better trigger' on the 1911.  And sure, if you have trained on the 1911 and know the trigger, those can be really good triggers.  A thing of beauty for well done ones.  Nothing like a crisp SA.  Setting aside the change that a DA/SA trigger does when going from first to second...  Were triggers really so hugely bad in the 80s and 90s?

Because now?  They seem fine.  Not gritty or heavy.

Ok, ok, I remember the initial M&P triggers when those first came out.  2.0 are better.  1.0 wasn't HORRID.

"You need the extensive training in those crappy triggers to be any good with em.  Not like with the 1911, T-Bolt."

Wait a minute.  I don't think Jeff Cooper would recommend I throttle back training in any event.  He'd want my to train long with a good-trigger 1911.  With that much training on a striker fired 'bad-trigger' Glock I'd be pretty good with it, too.  And saved $2000 in start-up equipment.

And it's not like Cooper eschewed revolvers as long as he thought you had a stout enough cartridge in your cylinder.  He trained folks on those at Gunsite (cops often had no choice of pistol).  And a Model 19 might have a glorious single action trigger, but you train it with the DA.  A revolver trigger might not crunch, but would be on the heavy side in DA, unless you get ridiculous with the springs.  Cooper dealt with that trigger.  Why box the shooting world into a 1911, until something 'better' came along?

That said, I think I want to take the 1911 to the range next trip.  Plastic 9's are fine.  But so is my 1911.


[I've never fired a Bren Ten but would not be surprised in the least if someone reported it's trigger was AWEFUL.]


Angus McThag said...

I've fired a Bren Ten! The trigger is a lot like a S&W 59, which is to say, not bad at all.

I'm not sure what it is, but when I shoot my Gov't Model I don't have to think about what I'm up to and I just do it.

It's not round count and familiarity because I've put a serious number of rounds down-range trying to like my M&P as much as my wife and best friend like theirs. No matter how good the groups or speed get, I'm still thinking, about what I'm doing and not just doing it.

The only 9mm that's even close to that same zen as a 1911 has been a Browning High-Power.

Mike V said...

I got to dry fire a Bren. It was smooth as glass.

You have to also remember, Cooper’s time was mainly before reliably expanding semi auto hollow points. So bullet size was a factor. With modern rounds, I think he’d have come around. He spoke very favorably of the CZ75’s ergonomics. In fact, the Bren was heavily influenced by the CZ.

Windy Wilson said...

I have fired a 1911, a Glock 17, and something called a Steyer GB, which Steyr had made as a competitor to the Glock on European police and service pistol contracts. The 1911 sits in my hand just fine, the trigger is not bad at all, the recoil is nothing to fret over, and I get back on target quickly and easily. The other two are 9mm, and each time I've fired them, they seem to want to rotate in my hand. I don't know what is going on with them. I don't think I grasp them any different.