Saturday, February 13, 2016

What do?

So Tam talks about a new kind of gunstore customer she is seeing getting CCW pistols.

Old.  60 somethings.  Often women.  Short.  Perhaps arthritic with visual acuity not what it was.

They are buying smallish sincle stack Glock 43s and similar.  The recoil springs are on the stout side for weakened older hands.   And it is easier to get a limp wristing malfunction with em, too, for the same reason. 

Well, that's no fun.

An old skool revolver might not be the answer either.  What with 12 pound DA trigger pulls and the same seasoned trigger fingers struggling to work it. 

So what IS the answer?  Tam doesn't say.  And I sure don't know. 

But I want to know.  I am planning to get old, and weak, myself. 

Process of elimination:  Revolver out, small single stack semi 9mm out....  So option 3 is full size semi.  I guess.  Hard to dissuade folks looking for the one goldilocks gun.  I can understand why folks want not too big, not too small, not too recoily, not too weak a cartridge...  So pick the Glock 43 over the Glock 19?  Yeah, I might fixate on the small gun too if I was new to the problem like some of Tam's elder customers seem to be. 

Update:  Tam doesn't allow comments on her blog because of a crazy person, but there are other places where commenters can speak on this.  Some of them, and her, are leaning that Glock 19 direction, too.


My dad is in a similar boat.  He doesn't have arthritis but he did have some surgery on both hands to fix some tendon issues.  The powerful hands I remember as a kid aren't what they were.  But he isn't pistol shopping.  If he was, well, why NOT a Glock 43?  He lives in Maryland, too, and the 19 offers not much more advantage as the single stack when it comes to magazine capacity.  Hopefull that will get slapped down in the court, finally.

Oooo, another thing I didn't consider:  loading a double stack Glock magazine when my hands are in pain.  Even with a loader.


Arthur said...

Full size 380 seems like a good idea. Easier to hold onto and springs don't need to be as stout as a 9mm especially if it's not blowback.

Or go with the tip up barrel and you don't need to work the slide.

Peter said...

I've taught several disabled students to use old police-surplus S&W Model 10's or similar revolvers. An action job can reduce the double-action trigger to a very manageable, smooth, light pull, and the recoil of .38 Special ammo is manageable in the heavier steel handgun. Buffalo Bore standard-pressure (i.e. not +P) hard-cast full-caliber wadcutters are a very viable defensive load.

B said...


A decent set of springs (Wolff or equivalent)

Some practice.

Really, that is the best option. Teach 'em single action first, then work 'em up to double.

Gallen said...

Single action revolvers for the home. The hammer can be worked with the thumb reasonably fast. It cane be worked with the other hand or thumb. No limp twisting effects. Can be had in hot or mild clambering. Super simple operation. It requires some practice, but so does everything.

Frankly, for carry, this might work, too.

Ratus said...

Kahr CT9?

It feels great, shoots soft too.

And it's cheap but not "cheap".

Glenn B said...

I replied by way of a post in my own blog. Too long for a response in comments. See:

All the best,
Glenn B

Ratus said...

Or maybe a box stock, take it apart with only your hands,nothing fancy 1911.

They work, magazines are easy to load, lowish recoil.

Hey Tbolt, maybe you should write about 1911s. :D

Comrade Misfit said...

The Walther CCP's design (delayed blowback) might be doable.

Only bad thing is it's currently made by Umarex.

Sigman said...

On top of slide and limp wristing issues, the smaller package usually makes for harder recoil (more kick). Personally I'd oak at a 2 1/2" S&W 19 or 66 running +p 38s or a full size or commander 1911. Moderate recoil, good sights and a manageable trigger (with a little work.

Daddy Hawk said...

I second the DA/SA revolver approach though I prefer a 3 inch barrel over 2 or 2.5. A S&W 19 doesn't give up much if any capacity over a single stack 9, recoil can be mitigated with .38s or .38+P and single action takes care of the double action trigger pull. Second choice would he a commander sized 1911.

Anonymous said...

Beretta Model 86 doesn't appear to be in production anymore.

The tip-up barrel meant that no wracking of slide was required.

Tip the barrel. drop in a round. Drop the barrel till it locks, and cock the hammer. After that it was a standard semi-auto.

Only available in .380.... (also available in mouse calibers..)

Seems they decided it wasn't needed/wanted. Of course now it seems like maybe it is.

Bob said...

I have a tip-up barrel .32ACP Beretta Tomcat. I'm not certain that a person with arthritis could easily operate the tip-up lever (it works off of a spring) unless the lever was increased in size or redesigned to make it easier to operate. Likewise, the finger strength required to snap the barrel back in place might be beyond a person with arthritis, to say nothing of cocking the tiny hammer or pull the heavy first-shot-double-action trigger.

I'd have to agree with the choice of a K-Frame S&W or a Ruger double-action revolver with a 4" or shorter barrel, tuned and re-springed to make for as light a reliable double-action trigger as possible. Standard-velocity 148-grain wadcutters are a mild-recoiling ammo choice for such revolvers, and even Massad Ayoob has in the past recommended the wadcutter round as effective for those who are recoil-shy or feeble in hand/arm strength.

Marty said...

We were talking guns at work and an older guy, the only one there older than me currently. He had this issue and went with a Chippa Rhino .357 to good effect. I still have never fired one. I want one me thinks!

eldiabloloco said...

Yeah, a glock 25 or glock 28 would be perfect. Too bad they are not sold in the USA. A mid size semi auto in 380 that is NOT blowback. Unicorns such as that were once available, but they came to market before the market came to get them. Gimme an SR380 Ruger!

Timmeehh said...

Browning 1911-380

.45ACP+P said...

Worked a shoot for women shooters a while back. We had a Glock 42 and a Glock 43 on our table. Both required explicit training about limp wrist before functioning for the ladies. Stove pipes galore. All were able to get past it but the issue is clearly a spring at the very edge of effectiveness. These are not simple or easy guns for the novice.